儘管英國尚未正式加入“一帶一路”倡議，但英國各界對這項倡議興趣日濃。當前的”脫歐“前景，可能為英國在“一帶一路”建設中提供一個新的角色。

Although the United Kingdom (UK) has not formally joined the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), it did not conceal its interest in closer cooperation with China on the initiative. The prospect of leaving the EU may provide the UK a new role in the BRI.

China Focus以“一帶一路”為主題，推出一系列海外知名人物高端訪談，今天推出對英國財政部“一帶一路”金融和專業服務特使、前匯豐銀行集團主席範智廉的專訪。那麼，他如何看待一帶一路”與英國之間的投資項目？英國在“一帶一路”建設中扮演了哪種角色？

With the theme of Belt and Road construction, China Focus is set to launch a series of high-profile overseas interviews. Today we have an exclusive interview with Douglas Flint, BRI Financial and Professional Services Envoy for HM Treasury, UK, Former Group Chairman of HSBC. How does he view some case projects of the investments related to the BRI in the UK? What kind of role does the UK play in the Belt and Road construction?

訪談對象：範智廉，英國財政部“一帶一路”金融和專業服務特使，前匯豐銀行集團主席

訪談人員：薛力，中國社會科學院世界經濟與政治研究所研究員

地點：倫敦某咖啡廳

Interviewee: Douglas Flint, BRI Financial and Professional Services Envoy for HM Treasury, UK, Former Group Chairman of HSBC. His comments were provided in a personal capacity

Interviewer: Xue Li, research fellow at the Institute of World Economics and Politics under the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences

Location: A Coffee House in London

China Focus: 在您看來，中國提出“一帶一路”倡議的主要原因是什麼？

China Focus: Why do you think China proposed the BRI?

範智廉：過去六年裡，“一帶一路”倡議通過創造貿易和經濟發展機會，成功吸引了一批國家向中國靠攏，其在協助建立貿易聯繫、促進經濟發展和分享發展成果等方面作出越來越多的貢獻。

Douglas Flint：Over the last six years, the BRI has evolved into a much broader initiative to build trade links, promote economic growth, and share economic prosperity through effectively creating a group of nations allied through trade and economic opportunities.

眾多國家的積極參與，讓“一帶一路”的概念比古老的“絲綢之路”更為寬泛。中國為世界的和諧發展提供了一種新的願景——世界需要大規模的基礎設施投資，以容納接下來20年中即將到來的大量人口。

This concept is now much broader than recreating the original Silk Road in terms of the number of countries involved. I think China has created a vision of the world where, to deliver harmonious growth, the world needs to invest massively in infrastructure to ensure that the population growth that is projected to take place over the next 20 years can be accommodated in a way that is manageable.

最重要的是，“一帶一路”讓我們認識到，世界增長需要基礎設施，若以一種不可持續的方式建設基礎設施，將給世界帶來巨大成本。將給世界帶來巨大成本。

On top of that, I think it is also a recognition that if the world growth needed infrastructure particularly in an unsustainable way, the cost to the whole world will be huge.

構建可持續的經濟與貿易聯繫是“一帶一路”建設的核心。

Delivering sustainable economic and trade links is the essence of the BRI.

China Focus: 您如何評價“一帶一路”倡議？

China Focus: How do you evaluate the BRI?

範智廉：“一帶一路”的優勢之一，是可以為共建國家創造經濟增長；如果沒有”一帶一路“帶來的其他國家的支持，它們無法在相同時間內取得這種成績。在這一點上，中國通過加速東道國的基礎設施建設來提高其人民福祉，創造就業增長，為這些國家的自身發展帶來大量利好。

Douglas Flint：There is a clear advantage in creating economic growth in countries that would not be able to achieve that growth in the same time frame without the additional support from other countries available through the BRI. If countries like China are prepared to accelerate infrastructure development that enables the recipient economy to add to the prosperity of its citizens and create employment growth, there are demonstrable benefits.

“一帶一路”將創造出更大的全球經濟體，提供更多的貿易機會，降低地緣政治帶來的風險。因為無法養活自己居民的國家會減少。同時，由於人們不再需要為生計而四處奔波，經濟移民的數量也將隨之降低。

In aggregate this should create a greater global economy, develop more trade opportunities, and reduce the risk of geopolitical tension because there will be fewer states that cannot support their own communities; this benefit will also reduce the possibility of unsustainable economic migration as people will no longer need to move to seek employment.

“一帶一路”倡議也將在《巴黎協定》框架下推進綠色議程的貫徹實施，為降低世界碳排放作出突出貢獻。

The sustainable execution of the BRI will enhance the green agenda in terms of the Paris Protocol, contributing towards a lower carbon-intense world.

很明顯，中國在承擔大國責任。中國越來越多地加入到多邊和超國家機構，在重要國際事務中負起更多責任。習近平主席曾經在世界經濟論壇的演講中強調全球化的益處，這就是最好的證明。

China is shouldering its responsibility as a major country. Through increasing its involvement in multilateral and super-national bodies, China has a significant role to play in terms of taking more responsibility for many things that are important for the world. President Xi's speech at the World Economic Forum about the benefits of globalization is evidence of this.

當今中國正在引領全球化的進程，這在20年前完全無法想象。中國通過“一帶一路”證明自己願意通過推動貿易和投資增長來促進其他國家的繁榮。中國主張分享繁榮，並確保參與其中的國家能夠共同獲得經濟收益。這一切做法符合我們每個人的利益。

China today is taking the lead in promoting globalization, a position that would have been difficult to imagine 20 years ago. So the BRI is evidence that China is willing to take responsibility and contribute to the prosperity of other countries through promoting trade and investment growth. The BRI is also evidence of China's stated objective to share prosperity and make sure countries that are behind it economically get help to grow, which is in everybody's best interest.

China Focus: 您怎麼看“一帶一路”與英國之間的投資項目？

China Focus: How do you view some case projects of the investments related to the BRI in the UK?

範智廉: 在我看來，英國將為“一帶一路”的成功實施作出重大貢獻。我們從中歐班列中受益良多，其中有線路終點在英國，但很多項目並沒有在英國實施。目前，大多數正在商議的項目都是在東歐、南亞和非洲這些急需基礎設施的地方。

Douglas Flint：I think the UK can be a major contributor to the success of the BRI but I don’t think many of the projects will end up here although we benefit from the railway links that go from China all the way to Europe, which are in the UK. Most of the projects that are being specified will not take place in the UK but in Eastern Europe, South Asia, and in Africa where the infrastructure is most needed.

▲ 2019年4月，負責高鐵二號線建設的英國國有企業首席執行官馬克⋅瑟斯頓飛往北京，和5家中國國有鐵路公司代表進行了會談。

Mark Thurston, the executive director of the British state-owned enterprise responsible for High Speed Two(HS2), flew to Beijing for talks with representatives of five Chinese state-owned railway companies in April 2019.

（薛：英國似乎在“一帶一路”問題上比其他歐洲國家更積極。）

(Xue: It seems that the UK is more positive towards the BRI than other European countries.)

我認為這得益於我們的歷史傳統。在經商方面，英國始終具有全球視野。倫敦金融城與英國的法律框架都是為促進國際貿易和投資而設計的。倫敦一直在國際項目吸引全球投資過程中扮演著重要角色。

I think that this is connected with our history. The UK has always had an international outlook through business. The city of London and our legal framework are designed to support international trade and investment. London has always played a major role in attracting international money for international projects.

無論過去還是現在，英國和世界上大多數國家都保持著這樣那樣的聯繫。在我們的歷史上，無論是作為英聯邦國家還是過去的大英帝國，英國都以貿易為紐帶與世界上大多數國家保持聯繫，這展示了我們旨在連接不同國家和促進貿易的冒險精神。

The UK has historic and current connections to most of the countries in the world, one way or the other. During the course of our history, as a commonwealth country and way back into the British Empire where Britain was connected by trade to most countries in the world, there has always been a spirit of adventure directed towards connecting countries and promoting trade.

如果看一下英國政治領袖的聲明，就會發現他們都在強調——不列顛是作為“全球的不列顛”而前行的。

If you look at the statements of our political leaders, they emphasize that Britain is going forward as "global Britain".

China Focus: 您認為英國在“一帶一路”建設中扮演了哪種角色？

China Focus: What kind of role does the UK play in the Belt and Road construction?

範智廉: 中國建造的基礎設施總量已超過其他國家的總和。英國在“一帶一路”中的機遇與貢獻在於我所說的“構建能力”方面。全世界基礎設施建設所需資金數額龐大，中國很難憑一己之力做到全部覆蓋。

Douglas Flint：China has built more infrastructure than the rest of the world put together. The way I describe the UK's opportunity and its contribution is to "build capacity". The amount of money needed to be spent on infrastructure development around the world is beyond even China's ability to do so on its own.

倫敦金融城的傳統優勢是從世界各地吸引資金、展示項目的可行性、確保適當的治理、提供可信的爭端解決機制，以及通過法治、特定領域專家和審計等來確保合同的透明度等等。這些基本涵蓋了國際社會所關注的項目實施的方方面面。

The UK's traditional skills in the city of London, such as gathering money from all over the world, demonstrating project viability, ensuring proper governance, providing a trusted mechanism for dispute resolution, offering clarity of contract through rule of law, fielding experts, auditing, and so on, are essentially the complete picture of what makes projects attractive to an international community.

投資者們希望他們唯一需要評估的只是項目本身，不必承擔無法獲取信息或解決合同糾紛等風險。如今，英國金融業和專業服務業在向全世界提供服務的時候，都儘量做到明晰管理。

Investors want to know that the only thing they have to evaluate is the project itself and not the risk of failing to get the information they need nor how to resolve contractual disputes. That governance clarity is what the UK's financial and professional service industries do today all over the world.

英國與中國的合作為“一帶一路”建設創造了更多的融資機會。

The UK working together with China creates the opportunity to build more financial capacity for the BRI than would otherwise be the case.

英國是唯一一個設立專職特使的國家。我們的目標是與中國合作，設計出融資與治理標準的框架，以提高“一帶一路”的國際融資能力。最終檢驗”一帶一路”成功與否的標準是，看它是否為那些原本不可能實現的基礎設施建設提供了發展條件，並加快了其發展速度。

Britain is the only country with a dedicated envoy role. In terms of what we are trying to achieve it is, along with China, to create a framework of financing and governance standards to promote international financing capacity for the BRI. The ultimate test of success will be whether the BRI has enabled infrastructure development around the world to be done that would not otherwise have been possible, or was done faster than it would otherwise have been.

英國前首相特蕾莎·梅於2018年1月訪華時清楚表態：英國渴望加強與中國的經濟和貿易關係, 積極支持“一帶一路”相關的經濟與商業倡議。我認為她的訪問非常成功。

I think former Prime Minister Theresa May was very clear on her trip to China in January, 2018 that the UK is keen to build its economic and trade relationships with China and is keen to support the economic and commercial initiatives of the BRI. I think her visit went very well.

China Focus: 在您看來，“一帶一路”對中國的國家形象有哪些影響？

China Focus: What do you think of the changes in China's national image since the launch of the BRI?

範智廉：人們支持“一帶一路”，是因為他們認為，“一帶一路”通過世界範圍內的基礎設施建設，促進了貿易聯繫，推動了經濟增長，分享了發展成果，中國兌現了當初既定的目標。

Douglas Flint：People support the BRI because they believe it is designed to meet its stated objective in terms of promoting trade links, economic growth, and shared prosperity through infrastructure development throughout the world.

在我看來，中國和世界都將從中獲得實實在在的利益。這股將持續20年的基礎設施建設潮流，有助於解決人口增長問題以及幫助一些貧弱國家面對社會和經濟挑戰。

From my perspective, I can see the genuine benefit, both to China and globally, from a major infrastructure push over the next 20 years to cope with demographic population growth and to cope with the social and economic challenges in the weakest countries.

中國必須意識到，肯定會有人質疑：這是否是中國的全部動機？實實在在的行動是消除這一疑慮的唯一手段。這意味著要確保項目設計良好，經濟上可行，並符合可接受的國際標準。只有這樣，人們才會相信這些項目有助於共建國家的經濟發展。

I think China has to recognize that there will be those who question whether that's the entirety of their motivation. But the only way to address that is through actions. That means making sure the projects are well designed, economically viable, and meet acceptable international standards. In this way people can see evidence that these projects have contributed to the participating countries.

China Focus：習近平主席將“一帶一路”稱為“世紀工程”，這意味著需要推進“一帶一路”的可持續發展，在您看來，在“一帶一路”建設的可持續性方面有什麼問題？該如何解決？

China Focus: President Xi Jinping referred to the BRI as a "Century Project", which means that it is necessary to promote the sustainable development of the initiative. In your opinion, what is the problem in the sustainability of the Belt and Road construction? How can it be addressed?

範智廉: 全球對基礎設施的需求源源不斷。我們可以將目光放在100年之後，但更有必要去關注從現在到2050年這段時間。未來30年，人們需要在充分保護環境的前提下，以一種可持續的方式容納新出生的大量人口。因此，全球對基礎設施的需求將迅速上升。

Douglas Flint：The need for global infrastructure never ends. So a hundred years is not beyond comprehension. But I think there are more reasons to talk about the period between now and 2050. For the next 30 years, the world has a dramatic need to build economic infrastructure to allow population growth to take place safely and in a sustainable way in terms of the environment.

“一帶一路”能否取得成功，並不在於那些國家能否支付建成的基礎設施費用，而在於由基礎設施形成的經濟生態系統所產生的經濟效益是否更有價值。

Whether the BRI will succeed is not a matter of whether the countries can afford to pay for the infrastructure that has been built, but whether the economic value of the economic ecosystem generated by the infrastructure is more valuable.

“一帶一路”倡議需要變得更加公開透明。至今仍有很多國家不理解“一帶一路”的內涵，有很多國家對中國的看法停留在20年前。很多人在時隔一段時間後再去中國，往往對這裡的摩登都市、高鐵和軌道交通高速發展以及龐大的發展規模深感震驚。他們現在看到的中國是一個充滿活力的經濟體。總之，中國有太多的東西需要西方去進一步瞭解。

The BRI needs to improve its transparency. There continues to be a lack of understanding in many countries surrounding the BRI. There are still attitudes towards China that are 20 years out of date. You know, many people are astounded when they go to China, when they haven’t been there for a while, when they go to the major cities, they see the progress of high-speed train rail networks and the sheer scale of development that has taken place. They see a vibrant economy. All in all, China has many things that those in the West need to develop a better understanding towards.

編輯 / 蔡海若

Editor / Cai Hairuo

圖片 / 網絡

美編 / 高銘